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English Arts Festival

Discussion Board: Reef of Death

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 10:18:13
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: gorey (?spelling)

I think that the kids in my class that like to read the "Goosebump" series would like this book. This is definately a boys book. Many of the boys in my class wanted to know if they could read it when I was finished as they saw me reading in class.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 10:32:37
Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org>
Subject: ditto

Robin, The experience was the same for me. That is probably the reason I was more drawn to this book. I stayed with this book much better than the last one. There are videos with that serie. I wonder if there are any videos with Paul's books? Rodney

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 10:37:56
Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I have to say that I didn't really enjoy this book. I thought that it was really descriptive with the gore, and I will really have a hard time justifying this in my room. As I mentioned to my group, I don't mind teaching books with violence as long as it has a purpose, such as with historical fiction. This doesn't have a purpose.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 11:13:41
Author: Wilson, Sandra <SWi3548332@aol.com>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I would not choose to read this book in my classroom either. My students have read it because they chose it from a group of 13 Zindel books I have on my shelf. They have been trading them and pasing them around ever since. The best thing is that they are reading and some of them are reading the other Zindel books too!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:38:54
Author: Rauschenberg, Jane <jrauschenberg@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gory

I agree with the others that this book was too gross and gory for my personal taste. And I would not choose to require the entire class to read this book. I would, however, include it on my shelf as an option. This book would get some of those reluctant readers to read. And there is room for that notion--sometimes we have to give them the kind of thing they like to read. Any reading is better than no reading.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:26:59
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: gory

I agree with not using as a class novel but I will be putting on my shelf. I have several students who would like the book. If they are reading is the most important even if it is not my choice or type of novel I would choose.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 17:12:53
Author: Guffey, Melissa <tl_mguffey@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gory

I, too, must agree with everyone else at this point. I would not choose this to read with an entire class, but a group of boys saw the front cover when I first had it in my room in October, and they were interested. I believe it could serve a purpose in silent reading, as I have done in my room. A few students have read the Pigman and me , and are now looking at this one. Once they are finished, I will have them compare and contrast the two stories. I will also ask them to make some predictions as to why they thought Zindel would write too very different types of books.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:26:27
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I would choose this book for my classroom. It does not serve a purpose except as being the fiction that it is. Many of my students would like this book. This is not a book I would have chosen to read based on the front and back cover but I am glad that I had to read it because I really did enjoy it.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:07:46
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I agree there is no purpose, however, in todays society the media and graphics of movies have changed our young adults. For example I have to explain to them when they complain about a writter using to much detailed description for a simple item. They say the writter did not need that much desription because they knew from the basics. I explain theat because they did not have the techinology we have today that you have to consider when it was written. Unfortunately, our society today seems to thrive on the gore and violence.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:17:49
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

That is for sure. I, myself, do not get into the violenc and gore in the movies or books, but it seems to appeal to the kids. If that is what it takes to get them to read I guess it is worth it. The only kids in my room I do not see improve are the one's I cannot get to read.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:43:15
Author: Pinkstock, Theresa <terrip@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I have to say, I really liked this book. This book appealed to me more than the others, at this point. In regard to my students reading it, I will ask for parental permission before giving it to any of them. This story has a lot of sci-fi action that appeals to some students. However, I do agree that the details are very gory!!!!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:35:14
Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

With the exception of The Pigman I have liked this book best so far too..

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:59:04
Author: Rauschenberg, Jane <jrauschenberg@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I confess that I found it more entertaining than the last two books in some ways... And of all the Zindel books we've read so far (yes Jasmine, INCLUDING The Pigman) I think this would have the most appeal to many of my 8th graders. The action, the gore, the treasure, etc....

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:28:32
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

Personally I enjoyed the Pigman series better than this book. It is, however, a good book and worth reading.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:28:07
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

Why do you like this book the best so far?

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 18:05:47
Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

This was not my favorite book either. I wasn't quite sure why we needed such descriptive scenes when the monster was devouring his human prey.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 10:56:12
Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I actually liked the book, only because many of my seventh grade boys would like all the gore that takes place in the story. The gore actually kept me reading, althought I did curl my nose many times.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:02:32
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I think there would be some girls who would like this book. The boys in my class asked me if the monster attack people and how much detail was given when the monster attacked.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 14:44:35
Author: Kolopajlo, Karissa <fh_kkolopajl@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I completely agree with you! Anyone who loves Goosebumps would love this book. It is a book full of guts and gore. I think that most male students in my class would love this book because of the the adventure and the darker side that it seems to move towards. However, I can also think of a few girls that would like it too!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:32:45
Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

Bingo. I thought the exact same thing. Goosebumps. Maybe Zindel was playing off their success and wanted to horn in on the action. A friend of mine who heard Paul Zindel speak said that he said that he started writing this type of book because they were popular.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:29:30
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

Yes the popularity but also the money issue.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 20:25:14
Author: Little, Christine <MA-TCLITTLE@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gory (?spelling)

I am so very surprised to hear Zindel's work compared to the Goosebump series!!! Those are very poorly written and they lack any of the rich vocabulary and detail that Zindel uses. Not even close! However, I did like the series for its appeal to my low level readers...

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 11:35:07
Author: Anonymous
Subject: Re: gory (?spelling)

I agree with you on the quality of the book, but I do not think anyone was comparing the books for their quality of vocabulary and text- just their appeal to the kids. They seem to be along the same basis in their content as far as guts and gore.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:31:24
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gory (?spelling)

I agree. This book, as well as many of Zindel's, are easy readers in my opinion. They are interesting, use good description, do not very long to read, and make you want to read on to find out what happens next.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 11:19:17
Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gory (?spelling)

I would agree too. As I mentioned earlier I enjoyed reading the book. I had to keep reading to find out what was going to happen next. I think my students will actually like reading the book.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 08:38:16
Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I look at this book as very entertaining and who doesnt like a book where the good guy stops the villian, safes the tribe, and gets the girl. It seems like a classic to me. I did feel that some of the plots used however were familiar. I would not use this story however as a class study due to the graphic nature and the age of my students.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 20:02:46
Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: gorey (?spelling)

I think that students who enjoy science fiction and fantasy which border on grim and "cutting edge" (i.e. Stephen King, Dean Koontz) might really enjoy this story.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 10:39:46
Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org>
Subject: Intelligence equals greed

This is a case of intelligence turned into greed. I guess that is human weakness. The doctor using knowledge to benefit themselves at the mercy of others.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 10:55:05
Author: Wilson, Sandra <SWi3548332@aol.com>
Subject: Who would read this?

My eighth graders love this book. Boys and girls alike. I asked them what they particularly liked about it and they said the fast action. There is never a dull moment. They also liked the gore, even the girls. They also liked the fact that the protagonist was a teenager and that the author gave him a lot of power.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:50:31
Author: Pinkstock, Theresa <terrip@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I agree! I think some boys and girls will like this book. I think it all depends on what they like to read (horror, mystery, or sci-fi). I try not to judge what my students read. I just want them to read!!! If they are motivated by horror novels, then so be it!! This story will appeal to those that like to read these types of books, and that is great. I, finally, became a reader in high school when I was turned on to Steven King novels!!!!!!!!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 17:56:51
Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I think anyone who likes action, thrill, and horror would be turned on to this book. I also think that this would be a great turn-on book for reluctant at risk- readers. It is a fairly fast easy read. You need to get past the first two chapters to really get into it and then look out.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 14:47:26
Author: Kolopajlo, Karissa <fh_kkolopajl@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I think that is a really good point to make. The main character is a teenager, which would appeal to the students because it gives them ownership of the book. That is something that a lot of books do not do.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 21:15:43
Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

This book was not really appealing to me. However, I have to take my student's interest into consideration. While reading this book all I could think of was, "Yuck!" Teenage students, especially those who enjoy mystery and sci-fi, would really enjoy this fast paced book. Although it wasn't a book that I would consider a pleasure to read, I read it in just a couple of days. I was eager to return just to find out what PC was getting into. I just have to keep my students in mind when reading young adult fiction. :)

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:04:01
Author: Hayden, Kellie <khayden@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I would have to agree with you. Although this is no heavy weight when it comes to literature, I am sure that my 8th graders would love this book. Its fast paced action, gore, and teen main characters make this an easy sell for my students. Personally, I did not care for it and found it had many weak spots.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 17:18:13
Author: Guffey, Melissa <tl_mguffey@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I would not choose to read this type of book. Honestly, just the cover of the book would turn me away. However, I think that many boys and girls in my room would enjoy this book, because it is not a complicated story and it does have a teenager as the main character. Many of the students in my room show their imagination through drawings of dragons and evil snakes. I think that this book would intrigue them.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:36:57
Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I can see my students loving this book as well. It'll just be hard to explain all the inconsistencies and things that just couldn't happen. The eel reviving PC back to life....

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:54:30
Author: Rauschenberg, Jane <jrauschenberg@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I think today's kids have learned to suspend belief when they see things on TV, in movies, or read them and never even really consider if that could really happen.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:32:08
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I agree because students have all the high tech on movies and tv that I did not see many years ago as a child.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 20:15:16
Author: Little, Christine <MA-TCLITTLE@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

Greetings! We used this novel with at risk students who were poor and reluctant readers. We found that they found it to be very exciting and that was very motivating to them. They were actually reading! As a sophisticated adult reader, I find Zindel's vocabulary and description to be wonderful! Okay...so I'm not very sophisticated!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 21:18:42
Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

Christine, I have to agree with your theory of Zindel's vocabulary. I guess one thing that kept my interest was his knowledge of the ocean and scuba diving. Aquatics is something that always catches my interest. It was just neat to have him know and understand so much about the subject matter. I accidently read the Loch over the break too. I REALLY liked that book. Loch had many similarities with this book, but with a little less gore.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:36:29
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I guess that I am not sophisticated either since I and my students would enjoy this book. I have suggested it to many of my students as well as the other Zindel books we have read.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 16:56:03
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I have them available to students to read, and currently have one student reading the Reef of Death, so I am anguish to see what he says about the book.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 08:43:21
Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I would say this book is geared for middle school students who have a like for the more graphic stories. It is fast paced and keeps the reader engaged. For example, killing off Uncle Cliff early on keeps the reader wondering when Wally will die since he seems to be a supporting role. I am glad he didnt do that though.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 11:43:54
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Who would read this?

I found myself wondering the same thing. I was glad to find out that everyone else made it as well. I was just waiting for the next "kill". This book kept me wanting to read on even if it would not have been my first choice to pick off the shelf.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 12:24:09
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: ?????

I was discussing this book wih my neighboring teacher when she was trying to help me scan my illustration and she kept asking me why the workers did not seem to be affected when the people were put into the tank. She could not believe some of the things that went on in this book. I think this type of book is more appealing to the younger reader due to the content. I am more of a nonfiction or realistic fiction reader as well, so that may have a lot to do with it. I just kept thinking- "How could someone be so cruel?" I guess we all know where he built this character from, though.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:06:53
Author: Hayden, Kellie <khayden@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Okay, who do you think was the basis for Dr. Ecenbarger? I'll give you one guess...his mother. He has some serious issues with this woman, and she has crept into all of his work thus far. The question is, can he stop himself? I sure hope so!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:38:20
Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Kellie - very good!! I can't agree more!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 15:42:57
Author: Rauschenberg, Jane <jrauschenberg@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Did anyone else catch that when we first see her he describes her as a praying mantis??? Hostility much? Not that that doesn't serve as a sort of fore-shadowing. And not that we don't already have an inkling that the people on the freighter are up to no good...

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:37:12
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

There was a passage on page 10 of this book that said "can't tell you anything unless I think of it, you know." This was also in the book "Gamma Rays". Also Uncle Cliff is like his mother in the way he is a dreamer, get rich schemes. Alos did you notice that the main character is a boy and girl the same in his other books?

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 16:53:11
Author: Rauschenberg, Jane <jrauschenberg@loganhocking.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

I noticed how PC was critical of his uncle's risk-taking in the same way that the mothers in "Gamma Rays" and "Pigman and Me" were seen as foolish in their dreams and schemes. The teenage protagonist is portrayed as the sensible, down-to-earth character who considers the consequences of things. (Although PC seems to be scheming in a way when he chooses not to report his uncle's death and goes after the monster & bad guys himself).

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:44:43
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Good points. I had not thought of those connections with his mother to Dr. Ecenbarger or Uncle Cliff. I can agree with those however.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 14-Jan-2003 21:21:37
Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Kelly, I read Loch over the break too. In the book Loch there is a character that equally wants to destroy due to intelligence and greed. Zindel uses a male for this role, however the concept of greed is still present in his writing.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 09:30:20
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

I also read Loch as well as Dooms Day. They all have commmon themes with the monster and the young male as the hero.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 08:55:01
Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Many writers base characters in their books on actual people they know. I dont believe that is a problem. It may just be the order in which we are reading his work that brings to light this question. If we had not read Gamma Rays, would this be an issue? If we are to follow this logic, we could only decide that any author that makes all there villians of one gender must have some deep psychological issues. So the question that begs to be asked is, if Zindel had used a male to fill all these roles, would there be an issue?

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 09:32:18
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

Not really. I think he is putting himself as the leader. If you look at all the books we have read they all have a young male and a young female working together.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 11:49:05
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

I think that Jane hit the nail on the head earlier when she stated that he seems to have the teenage protagonist as the sensible - down to earth character in the book. I feel that Zindel needed to be that person in his life and can relate.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 15:48:28
Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

I do not think there should any issues at all. Zindel, like many authors, writes about what he knows- his own life experiences. Using these experiences can only work to bring these things out into the open and make him, as a person and a writer, better able to deal with life.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 17:51:09
Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: What is it with Zindel and strong, older women?

I couldn't agree with you more about Dr. Ecenbarger being symbolic of his mother. She was very controlling and powerful in the book just like his own mother.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 15-Jan-2003 18:03:01
Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Did anyone else consider the theme of determination coming from this book.

I felt that PC and Maruul were two very determined young teenagers who were not ready to give up no matter how dangerous their journey was. They were determined to get the treasure for the ABorigines. This theme is paralleled in Zindel's own life. He struggled through life with his mother and was determined to become something despite his upbringing.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 08:48:20
Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Did anyone else consider the theme of determination coming from this book.

�es I also so the connection between them as well as his other characters in the other books. When you read the Loch and Doomsday you will also see the same similiarity.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 10:50:31
Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org>
Subject: Re: Did anyone else consider the theme of determination coming from this book.

I agree with your connection between PC and Maruul with Zindel's life, detemined to overcome life's difficulties.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 13:44:38
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Did anyone else consider the theme of determination coming from this book.

I also agree. I think that is an aspect of a good writer. He brings his own life experiences into these books, but he builds upon the plot and characters from his imagination. I would never have come up with a plot like this. Good job , Zindel!

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 10:46:38
Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org>
Subject: Young adult males

I believe young adult males would enjoy "Reef of Death." The killings are so descriptive and males seem to enjoy reading gross situations like what we have read.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 16-Jan-2003 13:46:24
Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Young adult males

I agree. He is extremely descriptive. I am not into the horror movies, but if it is going happen I think the kids want to hear the details. They will really like this book.

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 22-Jan-2003 14:13:36
Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org>
Subject: Zindel autobiography

Zindel seems to give us another glimpse into his personal life. Personal problems with maternal/paternal aspects of his life. But, if you hang in there, you can overcome the obstacles. My kids liked this book. Rodney

Current Forum: Reef of Death
Date: 06-Feb-2003 08:24:34
Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org>
Subject: interest

My interest lacked at times for the book. I did find it more inviting than an earlier book that I won't mention. My sixth graders would love it. They indicated that by asking questions about the books.