English Arts Festival

Discussion Board: The Pigman

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:34:48 Author: Spurr, Dawn <ff_dspurr@seovec.org> Subject: What are we supposed to do now?  Anyone know?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 13:58:35 Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  I guess we respond to the question and then we post our questions that our related to the role we are taking in the literature circle.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:40:45 Author: Glasgow, Jackie <glasgow@ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  This forum is for the whole group to talk about The Pigman. In your groups, choose a task role to contribute to the small group discussion. Does that work for you?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 18:38:47 Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  Yes and THANK YOU!!!!!

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:36:05 Author: Glasgow, Jackie <glasgow@ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  What did you think about The Pigman? Jackie

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 16:23:25 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  The question of what do I think of Pigman, is that it was interesting how Zindel wrote from two characters view points. When I first read this years ago I did not notice that each chapter was written from the viewpoint of the two characters. I thought it was interesting how he switch the characters John writing one chapter and theen the next cahpter written by Loraine. Also there are some parts where you would have to explain to the students about things that were everyday but are not today. For example the rotary phone with the lock. Most children probably would not know what the lock was and that you could pick up the phone and click the line for the operator.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 13-Oct-2002 19:41:31 Author: Guffey, Melissa <tl_mguffey@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  It is interesting that you brought the fact up that students would not know some of the things in the book that are from the past. I must say, that I didn't even think about that part. Although, I do like the book, I would be afraid to read this aloud to the students, especially the character that John portrays. He blows up bombs in the bathroom, and it describes how it is done. He drinks in the cemetary. Again, I would be afraid to read this aloud with the students. I think they are impressionable at this age, and would that some of the things he is doing wouldn't be so bad to try. However, the more I have gotten into the book, the more I waiver over my own thoughts. We'll see what I think once I have completely finished the book.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 09:24:15 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  Jackie, I'm still a little confused about what to do, but I am learning. A peer of mine is employed here and she promises to show me exactly how to use the Blackboard. *** I also tried to e mail you 3 times, but failed all three times. I used your e mail address on the course description. What are my reactions to the book? At first, I didn't like it. About chapter 3, I began to get into the characters. I find a strong parallel of myself and present teenagers in the roles within the book. I think some of the antics are humorous and others are a little risky(or shouldn't be shared- bomb making, etc.) I have also viewed teen type movies that depict similar characters. There are many out there. I understand the popularity of these movies based on the motivations and perceptions of teenagers. Zindel's book "The Pigman" duplicates many of the scenes from these movies. The book is somewhat appealing to me (reliving my past) and has to be extremely appealing to teenagers. (also early teens.) Thanks for listening. Please respond, so I know where I am. Rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 12:19:56 Author: Pinkstock, Theresa <terrip@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are we supposed to do now?  I agree! I liked this novel; however, I cannot read it to my fifth graders unless I read it orally (and edit a lot). I feel there is too many issues that are inappropriate for my students.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 20:13:10 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: dissusssion questions  Where are the questions going to be posted and are we to be on virtual talk at the same time?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:37:39 Author: Glasgow, Jackie <glasgow@ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: dissusssion questions  You would need to make arrangements with your group members. Set a date and a time when everyone can get on at the same time! This discussion board is not on "real" time like the virtual chat! Jackie

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 16:25:14 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: Re: dissusssion questions  Thnaks, and another question is when I log onto my circle group the virtual chat is not on that part of the program. IO have discussion group icon, email icon and share folder icon. Is this going to be a problemto chat to my group?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 20:33:13 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The fundamental issues in Pigman are one of a lonely widow who is befriended by two teenages. That John and Loraine have found an adult who they connect with because it seems they come from dysfunctional families. Also a look at three different peoples perspective or personalities.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:39:09 Author: Glasgow, Jackie <glasgow@ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  Good answer! Why do you think the kids played such a mean trick on the Pigman? Jackie

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:20:48 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I do not think that they played any mean tricks on the Pigman. They were just being kids and things got out of hand. The Pigman filled a void in the kids lives just as the kids filled a space in his as well. All involved received something from this relationship.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:30:32 Author: Kolopajlo, Karissa <fh_kkolopajl@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I agree with you. Each one of them had a life that was not perfect. When they got together they were able to enjoy their lives in ways that they may have never been able to do before. Mr. Pignati and the teens each got somehing out of the relationship and were able to see the joy that others can bring to your life.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 12:17:25 Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I think that what the kids did was wrong, and they knew it, though it didn't stop them. They really didn't have any control over how large the party got, or what happened during it, but the push to be able to have a party was stronger than knowing that it was wrong.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 11:36:01 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I Think that this can be a good lesson for our students to learn as well. Things can get out of control very quickly and then people can get hurt in more ways than one. The way they hurt the Pigman was a hurt that won't heal with a bandaide or caste. He was a lot more forgiving than most.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 12:29:05 Author: Pinkstock, Theresa <terrip@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I agree! I do not feel the kids played a trick on him. They were being kids. They did not think of the possible consequences of their actions. Sound familar!

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 12:51:21 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I too agree. Kids will be kids. We all did this type of "fun" activity. It wasn't really harmful. I didn't agree when they took the money from him, though. I am sure their are many vulnerable elderly people that might fall for the same trick. I would just hope that most kids would not have taken the money. Lorraine tried to talk him out of it, which did say something about her character. It would be a good journal topic to ask the kids whether they would have taken the money or not. Then, if they chose no, they could tell what they would have told Mr. Pignati. If they chose yes, they could state why and what they would do with it.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:34:50 Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The only mean trick played was in the beginning of the book when John and Loraine had pranked called the Pigman. Once they took a liking to the Pigman they had guilty feelings for what they had done and confessed everything to him. All three were lonely souls and they all found comfort from one another. John and Loraine actually found an adult that would listen and give them some undivided attention as well as for the Pigman who found someone to fill the void in his life after his wife passed away.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 16:12:19 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  If you mean the first time with the phone call, most young adults think it is funny to randomly select someones name and call them. One because at first they are animous and second if they can get away with the prank. I remember babysitting and the kids I was watching called the house and asked if the refrigerator was running. I told them to get off the downstair phone that I knew it was them. They thought it was funny. I think that at first they were trying to see what they could get away with, but once they meet Mr.Pignati they realized what a nice person he was to them.Plus that he needed the company.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 11:38:24 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  Technology!!! There wasn't caller id then. Kids can't get away with quite as much of that now.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 18:59:46 Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I don't feel that the kids did play a mean trick on the Pigman. I don't think the kids gave much thought to their prank call. As for the party at Mr. Pignati's house, I feel that his house represented a safe haven for them. It was a place where they could relax and enjoy the comforts of home and feel safe, something they did not have in their own homes. One should feel safe in their own homes and feel free to invite friends over. Lorraine and John felt this at Pignati's and therefore felt free to have a party at his home. They had no intentions of being malicious and vandalizing Pignati's home.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:13:58 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The issues in The Pigman are all about filling a void in your life. After reading this I realized that each of us has a pigman in our lives- someone that in some way helps to complete our lives and fill whatever space is missing. This was an excellent book that deals with the dysfunctional families that are a part of our world today.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:14:42 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The issues in The Pigman are all about filling a void in your life. After reading this I realized that each of us has a pigman in our lives- someone that in some way helps to complete our lives and fill whatever space is missing. This was an excellent book that deals with the dysfunctional families that are a part of our world today.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 14:02:24 Author: Dietz, Susan <sudietz@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The age issue really becomes part of that as well. The element of elderly lonelines makes me want to call home and talk to my eighty-one year old father more often. The Pigman needed them to fill his void; they needed him. It is a valuable generations lesson.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 20:12:13 Author: Little, Christine <MA-TCLITTLE@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  Perhaps because I am surrounded by my 7th grade students and at the end of the day return to my 5th, 7th and 10th grade children, I felt the fundamental issues of The Pigman centered around growing up, choices and the consequences of those choices. I am reminded that "consequences" are not always negative. Nor are they always obvious. John and Lorraine grew, mostly in the positive direction, as a result of their actions and experiences, some of which were rather negative at the surface level. It was the way in which they handled both their circumstances and the outcomes of their actions that produced the positive growth. Although I must go on record as generally being AGAINST adolescents sneaking out of their homes to smoke and dring wine with widowed old men. :)

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 11:49:15 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I totally agree. My grandmother is always asking me when I am coming to visit, and I am always running here and running there. After reading this book it opens your eyes to the fact that we should really take the time to see or talk to the people that may not have the busy life we lead to keep them from getting lonely. Most of us do not have time to feel lonely, but we should take the time for others.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 12:18:49 Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  This is also something that I thought about. As I looked around my classroom after reading this book, I realized that all my students are facing this same void, just as I did. I think that this would be a great activity for students to do; think about who has filled a void in his/her life.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 13-Oct-2002 13:31:15 Author: Edgar, Kelly <ff_kedgar@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I like that activity. I have some students that probably have a void in their life. I think to some of my students I help fill a type of void in their life. Some of my students I don't believe get much love. Sometimes they ask me for a hug. I teach 5th grade.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:26:15 Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I agree with your statement. John and Loraine found a comfort zone in the Pigman. The Pigman was interested and showed some genuine concern for John and Loraine's interest and thoughts.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:38:16 Author: Kolopajlo, Karissa <fh_kkolopajl@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I agree with you. The Pigman found something in them that he had not seen in a long time, since the death of his wife. They were able to take comfort in one another and be themselves. This allowed them to move forward and grow individually: something that can be hard to do on your own.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 20:50:22 Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  Yes Jeni....I agree with your reply. Mr. Pignati was also an individual who was not critical of John or Lorraine. Both John and Lorraine came from homes where their parents were critical of their choices.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:27:06 Author: Kolopajlo, Karissa <fh_kkolopajl@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I agree with you. However, I think that one of the other issues present in the text deal with the cycle of life. The children needed to have their time to play and to enjoy their life, they also needed an positve role model, and Mr. Pignati filled that void in their life. However, I feel that one of the largest issues in the text is that there comes a time in each one of our lives where something occurs that forces us to grow up. The death of Mr. Pignati in a way, took the children's childhood away and they were forced to grow up.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 13:39:10 Author: Hendricks, Jeni <fh_jpierson@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  I would have to agree with you Karissa. John and Loraine did have to face an adult issue...death. Were many adults try to protect young children from this issue, John and Loraine had to deal with it fist hand.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 20:47:03 Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  The viewpoint the author chose to use when writing this book was quite unique. It was neat to read a story where two characters were expressing their point of the conflict. I believe a main fundamental of the book is learning to deal with life, as well as death. Part of life is learning to face the reality that we are all going to die someday. However, it doesn't become real to us until an individual that we are close to passes on. Mr. Pignati played a vital role in the life of John and Lorraine. He taught them "life" lessons. John and Lorraine grow up due to the experiences they have with the Pigman and his death. They suddenly become more aware of their behavior and actions by the end of the book.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 13-Oct-2002 19:52:25 Author: Guffey, Melissa <tl_mguffey@seovec.org> Subject: Re: What are the fundamental issues in Pigman  Jona, I, too, liked the fact that it came from two different points of view. John, seemed to be the rebel, the one who wanted attention so badly, he would act out in any way possible. I think Lorraine added a totally different dimension to the story, by reflecting on what John did and showing his softer side. I also agree that students have to learn to deal with death as part of life. I know that where I teach, many have dealt with death of close family members. The Pigman found comfort with the two adolescents, who helped him to remember what it was also like to be young.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 14:07:30 Author: Wilson, Sandra <SWi3548332@aol.com> Subject: The Fundamental Issues in The Pigman  One of the ideas that struck me as I was reading was the discussion about the messages that we get from our parents and other adults by their actions. For Example- Lorraine's mother tells her that she is not a pretty girl. John's father doesn't drink anymore, but John does. John's dad phonies up a car claim, and his mom tries to get extra green stamps and they wonder why John has a problem with honesty. Lorraine's mother steals, but does not consider it stealing. The message about love that Lorraine gets from mother and absent father. Lorraine's mother talks about how bad men are. With Mr. Pignati, they experience unconditinal love and acceptance for the first time. Sandra Wilson

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 18:23:08 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: The Fundamental Issues in The Pigman  I agree. Parents impact their children's lives by actions and many do not realize that their actions differ from what they preach to their children. Too many times, adults try to teach the old saying, "Do as I say, not as I do." Many of your statements prove this to be true. Teaching good values and actions should result in good values and actions.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 08:38:39 Author: Glasgow, Jackie <glasgow@ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: The Fundamental Issues in The Pigman  Sandra, This is a powerful list! You certainly identified the aspects of these parents that make the family dysfunctional! Mr. Pignati is quite a contrast and role model for them. I like the way you are thinking about their situation.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 11:42:13 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: The Fundamental Issues in The Pigman  This is very true. You can definitely see why they went elsewhere to spend their time. The things people can say can really hurt young hearts. Mr. Pignati was sure a good role model for them and gave them the love that they yearned to have at home.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 18:48:33 Author: Carter, Jane <jcarter@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: RE:fUNDAMENTAL ISSUES  I believe that a fundamental issue of Zindel's book is learning how to discover our inner self during our adolescent years. The characters, John and Lorraine had many obstacles standing in their way of knowing who and what they were all about. Both of these characters came from very dysfunctional families. There families were unable to help them discover their individuality. The Pigman was the one character who understood and accepted them as true individuals.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 20:39:42 Author: Hall, Jona <fh_jhall@seovec.org> Subject: RE:fUNDAMENTAL ISSUES  Jane, I agree with your response concerning John and Lorraine growing into adults. John's father was extremly critical of his choices in life. Lorraine's mother was very vocal about her daughters appearance. However, the Pigman accepted both of them and could not see their pinpointed down falls. It was ironic how they discovered such a vulnerable individual and then were able to learn such a valuable lesson.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 10:29:05 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: RE:fUNDAMENTAL ISSUES  I too agree. John, Lorraine and the Pigman all relied on one another to fill a space for something that was missing. This book taught many life lessons in the face of adversity. It makes you stop and really think about your own life, mistakes you have made and the need to constantly think of ways to improve upon your own life.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 13-Oct-2002 19:04:42 Author: Spurr, Dawn <ff_dspurr@seovec.org> Subject: Want to schedule a chat? How about 9:00 on Monday evenings  Hello. Why don't we start having weekly chats on a specific evening. That way, even if you can't be there, we can save the chat file to the site. Your questions can be answered there. If Monday is not good, when would be a good time. I thought that if I had it before nine, many people wouldn't be able to chat because of their children. (like me :)) How does this sound?????

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 13-Oct-2002 19:55:04 Author: Guffey, Melissa <tl_mguffey@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Want to schedule a chat? How about 9:00 on Monday evenings  That would be wonderful, especially for Rookies like me. It took Rodney and I a couple days to even figure out how to get back on this site. It would be nice to be able to talk to people that have already done this once.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 11:55:57 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: skating  I am still picturing Mr. Pignati and the kids skating around the house. I can remember being young and skating around the kitchen table. It would have meant the world to me for an adult to put on their skates to join in. I think that Mr. Pignati could be interesting to any of our students. He sounds so fun and full of energy. I think this is what he needed to complete himself. Then he was ready to go.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 12:00:20 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: murder  At the beginning of the book John and Lorraine stated that they felt they murdered the Pigman. What part do you feel they played in this death?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 20:57:17 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: murder  I do not think that they played a part in his death at all. They did disappoint him in the end, but they were working past those issues when Mr. Pignati died suddenly. All involved benefited from and learned from each other. Wendy

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 15-Oct-2002 14:13:02 Author: Sharp-Arnett, Robin <robins@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: murder  I agree. I can see how the kids would feel like they had had something to do with his death because I have seen elderly people who just give up when someone they loves passes away. The kids must have felt that the things they had done had that effect on the Pigman. I felt that the loss of Bobo had an enormous effect on the will of Mr. Pignati.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 15-Oct-2002 19:10:08 Author: Essman, Wendy <wjessman@west.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: murder  I guess I can agree with that too. Bobo was Pignati's only friend after his wife died. He died, John and Lorraine disappointed him greatly and so Pignati's will gave way too. Wendy

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 28-Oct-2002 12:47:54 Author: Dietz, Susan <sudietz@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: The Pigman and Me  Hello All, This book is a trip! I don't know Zindel that well yet, but I must wonder when he is pulling our leg and when he is telling the truth. What do you all think? Susan Dietz

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 28-Oct-2002 19:37:19 Author: Frazier, Connie <frazier30@juno.com> Subject: Re: The Pigman and Me  Good point about pulling our leg. Do you think he soes this to keep you interested in his story? When you read have read "Gamma Rays", "Pigman & Me", and "Pigman" you can see a common theme about his life growing up. There are soe very common issues played out throughtout all three books.