English Arts Festival

Discussion Board: The Pigman

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 07:46:49 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Collections  Mr. Pignati's pride and joy was his pig collection. As you read the description of his colletion at the end of chapter 5, did you think of a prized collection you once had or currently have? Describe this collection and its importance to you.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:21:53 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Collections  Well, I think my book collection is my prize collection. I have so many different collections and so many books. It's overwhelming my home actually and I've begun to "purge." It's been hard! Jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 14:03:52 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Collections  No, I did not think of a prized collection. The first thing that came to mind for me was that Mr. Pignati and his wife had spent a life-time putting that collection together and it represented a life-time of love and commitment. The feelings Mr. Pignati had were more of a reflection of his feelings toward his wife. John and Loraine didn't know this at the time they first saw the pig collection, but as the story progressed, they began to realize that everything in the Pigman's life was a reflection of his relationship with his wife, a time when he was truely happy. John laments this idea at the end of the book when he discusses how the only person he ever new that really understood the important things in life was the Pigman and how his parents simply kept themselves so busy they didnt have to concern themselves with such trivial things.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:54:27 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Collections  Wow! I never thought of the symbolism associated with the pigman's collection. I agree with your statements. I also believe that John and Lorraine learned through the "school of hard knocks" about love and commitment. It's unfortunate, however, that the death of Mr. Pignati had to occur for this learning to take place.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 07:47:59 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Comparisons  Think back to when you were a sophomore in high school. How were you like John? How were you like Lorraine?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:23:16 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Comparisons  Oh, I was Lorraine. I cared so much about school and was kind of proper but had crushes. She has a crush on John. That's one of the things I like so much about this novel. These two kids are so real! Jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 09:56:25 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Comparisons  Ha Ha! I enjoyed your response. I can see that you were drawn to the same aspect of that novel that I was... the good ol' love story.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 14:07:25 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Comparisons  I was definitely a John although I was a bit more of a loner. I drank and smoked and basically did whatever I wanted to do. I never purposely picked a fight, but I never walked away either. I had an attitude that kept most people away and if someone tried to become to close I was very affective at chasing them off. The good news is I have grown up since then.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 10:00:21 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Comparisons  I'm glad that you have grown/matured. I had visions that down the road John would also mature and learn what is important about life.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:56:22 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Comparisons  John or Lorraine, Yes. I identify more with Lorraine. She seemed to be the mediator and the one perceiving all things around her. She was a very feeling person, who sometimes acted irrationally. She also lacked guidance or the availability of it. rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 07:50:06 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Bad News  Lorraine and John "sensed" something bad would happen when Norton Kelly arrived at the party. What might you have done if caught in that same situation? If you had been one of the friends at the party, what advise might you have given to Lorraine and John at that moment?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:24:29 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Bad News  I wouldn't have said anything at that age. I really had no guts. I would have known and maybe sensed the same thing but truthfully I wouldn't have done anything or said anything to stop it. That's if I as at someone else's party. If it was my own parent's house I might have been more vocal. jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:24:42 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Bad News  I wouldn't have said anything at that age. I really had no guts. I would have known and maybe sensed the same thing but truthfully I wouldn't have done anything or said anything to stop it. That's if I as at someone else's party. If it was my own parent's house I might have been more vocal. jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 14:11:25 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Bad News  This is a simple question for me. I would have politely asked him to leave once, then I would have removed him, especially if I already had a few in me. If I were a freind of John or Loraine's I would have offered to help them remove Norton before he had a chance to become a problem. I believe in being proactive when it comes to problems of this type.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 10:05:04 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Bad News  Ha Ha! Yes, a "few in us" helps us to take matters into our own hands. I can envision it now... Norton being thrown off the front porch by the seat of his pants. I would have been there applauding and laughing as he went flying.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 12:21:06 Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Bad News  I would like to think that I would have been able to stand up and find a way to get him to not enter the party, but at that age I probably would have covered my tracks much the same way as Jon.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 07:55:38 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Futures  What effect do you believe the death of Mr. Pignati had upon both John and Lorraine's futures? Can you support these predictions via the text?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:53:46 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Futures: death and the illustrator  Impact on John and Lorraine---death. I thought the death of Mr. Pignati was tremendous. Zindel allowed the kids to come into his world. They built a strong relationship with him that others didn't develop (family etc.) Then, suddenly they were cast into the open seas to make sense of why it happened and why they had to deal with disturbing issues that mainly happen in the adult world. They were alone and uncomforted. ***note : I am the illustrator, but I am having tremendous trouble putting my illustration in the discussion board. I copied a picture of a set of broken glasses with questions about the kids perception and our perception of the kids. Sorry , you aren't getting the picture. Do you have any thoughts on that.??? Rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 07:56:47 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Word Pictures  What were some scenes or images that you were able to easily envision because of Paul Zindel's writing?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:26:56 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Word Pictures  The phone prank scene. The school descriptions. I really love that Zindel so capably captures the real true experience of adolescence. The parent scenes. How the kids are with their families. He then throws these kids into a difficult situation. These two will really grow as adults fast. Other kids who don't experience these hardships will take longer to develop. jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 14:17:24 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Word Pictures  I felt Zindel did an excellent job of describing the main characters. I was able to picture each of their faces through out the story. Zindel showed masterful skill in saying just enough about the characters that you could easily create a picture in you mind, but still allow the reader to become involved in creating the final image and thus the story itself. Zindel also did a good job of making the supporting characters descriptions vague enough that the reader could connect them to someone in their own life.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 12:27:59 Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Word Pictures  I was easily able to picture The Pigman's house. I could easily see all the old clothes, figurines, and furniture in mind. I think that this was an easy picture for me because I am very close with my grandparents and spent quite a bit of time in their house, which seems very similar.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:48:35 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Word Pictures: response  Some scenes? I reflect on my own life and am thankful for how it unfolded. Scenes where the kids were in unmonitored locations (in Mr. Pignati's home) scared me, but I can remember being in similar places. They worked out, but that is not always the case. When the kids confronted death and their own personal life, they were left to defend themselves. I wanted to run to them to comfort them. To help them understand.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 09:32:14 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Summarizer  I guess I will be the summarizer :) I taught this novel for three years in a row about two year ago. It has been two years since I've read it so it's been a nice refresher to do this. John and Lorraine are writing an "epic" that describes their experiences with Mr. Pignati (the Pigman). They meet him through a prank call and become fast friends. He is everything that their parents are not and he takes on a friend/surrogate father role for them. They care for each other. At the same time we get a sense that Lorraine would like John to be more than just a friend. John and Lorraine take advantage of Mr. Pignati's hospitality by throwing a huge party that wrecks his home. He walks in on it and has a heart attack. John and Lorraine feel instant remorse. They try to apologize at the zoo but he later dies anyway. jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 10:10:48 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Summarizer  I have never used this book in class What level were your students? How did they react to the novel? Do you think it would work better for a small group or whole class? I teach 6th and 8th grade reading. Which age might react more favorably to the book?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 14-Oct-2002 16:04:11 Author: Ball, Jasmine <jball@loganhocking.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: Summarizer  Well, that's a good question. My first year that I used this book was in a 9th grade general english class. We read it together as a class and the kids really responded to it. Especially John's irreverent attitude. Then for two years I taught it to 10th graders and they also loved it. Whole class once again. This year I think I'm going to teach it with 8th grade in small groups and I'll tell you how it goes. I have had some individual 8th graders choose it for their independent reading novel and they have loved it. This book really works with almost any age. Jasmine

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:44:21 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Summarizer  Elaine. I'm still learning how to use Blackboard. I don't even know where the questions are posted. I will make comments on some replies to you. What level should read this book? Personally speaking, I thought the book was a little strong, even for me. Some of the subjects they touched on and activities there were involved in are intended for an older audience. It definitely belongs in the 11th or 12th grade. What was my reaction to the novel? I personally didn't like the book at first, but grew to want to continue reading it. Underage drinking and smoking is a sensitive issue in me. The book treated it like it was nothing. Some of the domestic issues(feelings toward parents) are practical. Now the resolutionos to the problems were just left hanging in the children. I guess it was intended that they worked them out on their own. It seemed to be a cold way of resolving them. I thought Zindel developed the characters very well. He make them complicated, yet simple to follow. The treatment of people was a big issue here. The leadership of mature adults came into question. Zindel worked around that. The implication to me was that who is the shaping of growing teens. Try reflecting on the impact we have on these individuals. Are we really listeninig to them. Better in a small group or a real class.? Because of the sensitivity of the book, I would recommend it to small groups . Activities could be explored (youth adult connections) could be better implemented. Teach this to 6th or 8th graders? no way . I could think of other books with similar themes that fit as prerequisite to this book. But keep it in the high school. Rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:44:55 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Summarizer  Elaine. I'm still learning how to use Blackboard. I don't even know where the questions are posted. I will make comments on some replies to you. What level should read this book? Personally speaking, I thought the book was a little strong, even for me. Some of the subjects they touched on and activities there were involved in are intended for an older audience. It definitely belongs in the 11th or 12th grade. What was my reaction to the novel? I personally didn't like the book at first, but grew to want to continue reading it. Underage drinking and smoking is a sensitive issue in me. The book treated it like it was nothing. Some of the domestic issues(feelings toward parents) are practical. Now the resolutionos to the problems were just left hanging in the children. I guess it was intended that they worked them out on their own. It seemed to be a cold way of resolving them. I thought Zindel developed the characters very well. He make them complicated, yet simple to follow. The treatment of people was a big issue here. The leadership of mature adults came into question. Zindel worked around that. The implication to me was that who is the shaping of growing teens. Try reflecting on the impact we have on these individuals. Are we really listeninig to them. Better in a small group or a real class.? Because of the sensitivity of the book, I would recommend it to small groups . Activities could be explored (youth adult connections) could be better implemented. Teach this to 6th or 8th graders? no way . I could think of other books with similar themes that fit as prerequisite to this book. But keep it in the high school. Rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 18-Oct-2002 14:45:10 Author: King, Rodney <tl_rking@seovec.org> Subject: Re: Summarizer  Elaine. I'm still learning how to use Blackboard. I don't even know where the questions are posted. I will make comments on some replies to you. What level should read this book? Personally speaking, I thought the book was a little strong, even for me. Some of the subjects they touched on and activities there were involved in are intended for an older audience. It definitely belongs in the 11th or 12th grade. What was my reaction to the novel? I personally didn't like the book at first, but grew to want to continue reading it. Underage drinking and smoking is a sensitive issue in me. The book treated it like it was nothing. Some of the domestic issues(feelings toward parents) are practical. Now the resolutionos to the problems were just left hanging in the children. I guess it was intended that they worked them out on their own. It seemed to be a cold way of resolving them. I thought Zindel developed the characters very well. He make them complicated, yet simple to follow. The treatment of people was a big issue here. The leadership of mature adults came into question. Zindel worked around that. The implication to me was that who is the shaping of growing teens. Try reflecting on the impact we have on these individuals. Are we really listeninig to them. Better in a small group or a real class.? Because of the sensitivity of the book, I would recommend it to small groups . Activities could be explored (youth adult connections) could be better implemented. Teach this to 6th or 8th graders? no way . I could think of other books with similar themes that fit as prerequisite to this book. But keep it in the high school. Rodney

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 14:49:14 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: dual narrator  I felt the style that Zindel used added greatly to the story. Using two points of view opens the door to a discussion about how people view the same events differently. How does this use of dual narrators affect the story for you?

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 10:12:47 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: dual narrator  I really enjoyed the use of two narrators. However, I think a lot of my students might not easily understand this at the beginning. I think I might tell them about the switch, but see if they can figure out the pattern on their own.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 10-Oct-2002 23:31:17 Author: Hennes, Jack <ff_jhennes@seovec.org> Subject: connections  Zindel connects this story to so many real life people and events it is hard to pick out any specific one. I would guess this really happens to many people. The lonelyness of the Pigman is easily connected with many people in my own life. My wife's grandmother stayed alone in her home for many years, isolated by her inability to drive and an unwillingness to reach out to others. Her saddness was so visible when ever we visited her. She was a very tired woman the first time I met her, but she always acted full of energy when ever we visited. She passed away a little over a year ago and I like to think she is with her husband who passed before her, just as I like to think the Pigman is with his wife in the story. As for Loraine and John, I can see these two people walking down the street every day. Angry at the world because no one understands or just wont take the time to understand. They are starting to realize who they are but the people around them are failing to see it. As a teacher, I have seen many children who are reaching out in any way they can but the parents are simply to busy to see what their child is really saying. One student comes to mind in particular, I will call him Bill. Bill could not reach his dad by just talking because his dad was always busy either working or hunting or hanging with the guys. Bill began to misbehave to get dads attention and it worked, all be it not in a positive way. But to this day that is how Bill gets his dads attention and now he is labeled as a trouble maker and a lost cause. I feel Bill and John are mirror images of each other and Bill will soon be old enough that he to will start smoking and drinking and making up stories. I hope these two connections make sense to you and I would love to hear your thoughts on them and the book in general.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 11-Oct-2002 10:20:07 Author: Henderly, Elaine A. <elaineh@amanda.k12.oh.us> Subject: Re: connections  I agree with many things that you say. Wouldn't it be great to get lonely, elderly people hooked up with some younger individuals? I have heard of students emailing people in rest homes. Both parties benefit from the experience. I feel for your students that act out in order to get attention. Many times, as teachers, we become the outsider who can see the problem but making those involved see the problems and solutions is very difficult.

Current Forum: The Pigman Date: 12-Oct-2002 12:26:19 Author: Harter, Megan <fh_mharter@seovec.org> Subject: Connector  As I was reading this book it was hard not to picture the majority of my students have the same emotions and actions. One connection that is especially strong, deals with how both teenagers viewed his/her parents. Something was always too loud, or too much time. When I listen to parents talk about their children I realize that they are too busy to everything, but actually spending time with thier child. I wonder if Zindel wasn't making a point of how children react when parents show such a lack of interest and time. Another connection was how each child viewed each other, as well as who they were. Lorraine was worried about her weight, and the constant reminders from her mother about men, while John never felt equal to his older brother. These are connections that the majority of my students in room could easily make, as well as any teacher.